Pavlo Tsaruk: "I don't work for money at TAS Insurance Group..."

Read the original language

TAS Insurance Group is one of the strongest, most vibrant, and active players in the domestic insurance market. The company has firmly established itself at the top of all industry rankings, confidently demonstrating sales growth, systematically presenting new products, and steadily expanding its regional network. Pavel Tsaruk, Chairman of the Board of TAS Insurance Group, talks about the path to success, its recipes, and the pitfalls of the modern insurance market.

— It's no secret that TAS Insurance Group is often confused with its namesake, the life insurance company of the same name. How did it happen that the companies have the same name? Is it a coincidence or a deliberate move?

— Initially, it was planned that the life insurance company would be called "TAS Life." However, given that at the time it only had a license and employed three or four people, while SG was already a large company, as the project manager for the life insurance company's launch, I came up with the idea to leverage the TAS brand by using the acronym in the name, without any prefixes, additions, or clarifications. Furthermore, it was important for us to demonstrate that all the companies within the TAS Group are united into a powerful structure and provide reliable support for each other. On the other hand, having a single name places additional responsibility on us all, since problems with one company cast a shadow on all companies with the same name, meaning everyone must work twice as hard.

— TAS Insurance Group has long been among the top three in the compulsory motor insurance market, behind only Providna and Oranta. Do you plan to displace them in the future? Especially since Providna is currently receiving quite a lot of complaints, and Oranta Insurance Company isn't doing so well either...

— I'm confident that within the next two years, TAS Insurance Group will top the rankings of motor insurance companies. We've set ourselves the goal of taking second place in the rankings this year. And we are steadily moving towards this: based on the results of recent months, our growth in the MTPL market exceeds 29%, which is the highest figure among the top 5 insurers operating in this segment, and more than twice the average growth rate for the market. Therefore, we have every chance of changing the balance of power in the top 3 MTPL market.

Regarding Providnaya... Employees from this company often transfer to us – they like our conditions, and, given the similar development models of TAS IG and Providnaya, the transferred employees easily adapt to the new environment. At the same time, I emphasize: we do not poach anyone, we do not chase anyone, we do not outbid anyone. The decision to transfer to TAS IG is solely the decision of the employees themselves, dictated by their choice. Initially, a group of six regional branch directors approached us, then - more and more...

— How much do you earn per year? Have there been any attempts to lure you to another company?

— I'm not a poor man. Having worked for quite a long time in senior positions with a corresponding level of income, I have certain savings and investment income from deposits, which significantly exceeds my salary as Chairman of the Board of TAS Insurance Group.

Actually, the salary is not a fundamental factor for me. As grandiose as it may sound, I don't work at TAS Insurance Group for the money. I love this company, to which I have dedicated practically a third of my life. And you must admit, 15 years out of 40 is a lot. Therefore, when the shareholder invited me to TAS Insurance Group, I didn't even ask about the salary, finding out its size only a month later, upon receiving it.

As for "poaching", I'll be honest: despite the fact that I regularly receive relevant offers, I haven't attended a single interview over the past four years. And this despite the fact that they offered me considerable money – one insurance company was talking about a sum five times higher than my salary at TAS Insurance Group. But I refused.

The fact is that it is very important for me to have a certain amount of authority, allowing me to implement certain ideas, implement projects, etc. Working at TAS Insurance Group gives me this opportunity – to do business without constantly looking over my shoulder to the shareholder. I have fairly broad authority; I can implement my ideas, but at the same time, of course, I bear full responsibility for the business. Basically, I feel like a boss here.

The second undeniable advantage for me of working at TAS Insurance Group is the opportunity to create. We develop amazing projects, create technologically advanced retail, actively work on automating key business processes, etc. No one else in the market does this!

I know for a fact that in a company with foreign capital, it would take years to approve even one of the projects that we develop and implement by the dozens!

We have a completely different approach, and for me, TAS is, above all, the trust of the shareholder, broad powers, and the opportunity to constantly create something new, interesting, and unique.

I don't focus on money. We all only live one life, and spending it trying to make as much money as possible is foolish, to say the least. I adhere to the idea that life's goals should not be reduced to methodically earning and saving money, but to the opportunity for self-realization. And TAS Insurance Group provides this opportunity.

— What is the average salary of TAS Insurance Group employees? How and how do you keep your team from moving to other companies?

— TAS Insurance Group has never had exorbitant salaries. Our advantage for employees lies elsewhere—the absence of bureaucracy in decision-making. Unlike many other insurance companies, we have simplified all work processes as much as possible. This makes our employees' work easy; they don't have to waste a ton of time and energy on unnecessary red tape, numerous approvals, and coordination.

Furthermore, people who genuinely want to work and grow have every opportunity to implement all their projects within our company. This is very important to me, and I understand how important it is for others, which is why I give my employees this opportunity and empower them accordingly. If you want it, you have the cards—go ahead and do it!

Let me give you an example. In fact, our retail network is managed by someone who doesn't even hold the title of department director. But he has ideas, he has desire, he wants to realize his potential—and we give him this opportunity! And there are many such examples.

In general, we devote a lot of time to working with staff, particularly salespeople. And the main goal of this work is, on the one hand, to enable them to realize their potential, and on the other, to inspire them to move forward.

We have already developed a tradition of holding a so-called roadshow once or twice a year – a two-day seminar for all salespeople without exception, conducted by me personally. The effect of such meetings is amazing! After all, communicating directly with salespeople, without "intermediaries", allows us, firstly, to stay grounded, to understand the problems faced by employees on the ground, and through joint efforts to find ways to overcome them.

Secondly, our salespeople get the opportunity to personally, face to face, share their wishes, ideas, plans, discoveries, etc. with company management. As a result, all participants in these meetings receive an objective idea of what needs to be done, which direction to move in next, what tools are needed, etc. And then, based on the results of these meetings, we put everything we planned into practice, holding weekly calls to adjust our work, streamlining certain processes, etc. In short, through joint efforts, we bring all our ideas to life.

Perhaps this relaxed yet exciting creative atmosphere is what distinguishes our company. The opportunity to create and have the appropriate authority to do so, while enjoying all the support – this is a colossal motivator!

By the way, when I hire new employees, especially salespeople, I always ask them: what is more important to you – a decent fixed salary with a small sales bonus or a small salary with a significant bonus? A strong person will always choose the latter option, because they are confident in their abilities, believe in themselves and their capabilities. And for me, this is an undeniable advantage, an indicator that such an employee will be interesting to work with, because they are capable of moving mountains to achieve their goals. I always respect people who are so driven and confident.

— How is career advancement in your company? Is it possible for an ordinary guy from a call center to break through to department head and above? What does it take to achieve this?

— I'm sure everything is in our hands. We don't chase "talents," but they have every opportunity to realize their potential within the company. Our employees know perfectly well: the door to my office is always open, and all email addresses and phone numbers of company management are freely accessible. We are always ready to listen, discuss, help, and support. Where there's a will! I am deeply convinced that people with a proactive outlook on life, striving only to move forward, will always prove themselves. As for those who take no action, merely waiting for management to notice them and offer them career advancement opportunities... well, their chances of achieving any great heights within the company are probably very slim.

After all, I repeat, career advancement at TAS Insurance Group is, first and foremost, about expanding an employee's functionality, expanding their authority, and, accordingly, increasing their income.

If you are valuable to the company, full of ideas, and ready to take responsibility for their implementation, the company will provide you with comprehensive support. Moreover, we are willing to pay up to 10% of the results achieved through their implementation for innovative ideas.

— Do you have any plans to buy or "acquire" any insurance companies in Ukraine, following the example of AEGON and TAS Life?

— We are ready for expansion. Moreover, we have already launched a partnership project with the insurance company "Garantiya". On the other hand, today in Ukraine there are not many companies that make sense to buy. After all, most companies for sale have a large "minus" on their balance sheets and are essentially worthless. This is especially true for risk insurance companies.

Unfortunately, dumping is very common in the market today, while "crazy" commissions are paid to sellers. In fact, this approach indicates that either the company is structured like a pyramid scheme or is experiencing serious problems with settlements. We would not buy such a company. And they certainly wouldn't engage in price dumping, wouldn't pay outrageously inflated, unjustified "commissions," etc. Without this, such a company would fall apart in a matter of days, and its employees would immediately defect to another "pyramid." Furthermore, we're not interested in working with salespeople who are focused only on the size of their commission and who are completely indifferent to the fact that their client, in most cases, won't receive a payout in the event of an insured event, since the insurer doesn't have the money.

We're interested in different people – those who are focused on long-term service, not constantly "migrating" from one insurance company to another. We need people who value their reputation and the reputation of the company they represent.

We happily invest in such people, train them, and develop their potential. And it bears fruit. Judge for yourself: two years ago, we set ourselves the goal of collecting 1 billion in insurance payments by 2017. However, to achieve this, we needed to grow by 30%, but back then, it was only 10%.

And, although many in the market didn't believe that TAS Insurance Group's payment volume would reach UAH 600 million by the end of 2015, our salespeople were confident: we could do it, we wanted it, and therefore we could. I remember writing and rewriting a step-by-step plan for achieving this goal with each branch several times, revising and adjusting it repeatedly. But, in the end, we developed a plan with each branch that, first and foremost, the salespeople were confident in.

I'll say right away that if we hadn't achieved our goal, no one would have been punished; after all, it was simply our shared dream. Nevertheless, we put in a lot of effort to make it a reality: we maintained constant contact with our regional employees, checking in with them to see if they were on track, and if they weren't or if something was holding them back, we tried to find ways to achieve the goal together, promptly adjusted our plans, collaborated on new solutions, and so on.

And you know, people were very surprised when they saw firsthand that if you sincerely want something, try to imagine possible paths, believe in them, and, most importantly, take a step toward your future goal every day—all dreams come true! Most of our salespeople voluntarily develop monthly development plans for themselves, focusing on at least one area of personal development each month, and it's paying off! In 2016, we dreamed of achieving a 30% increase—we achieved 29%. This year, we dreamed of a 31% increase, but we've already achieved 35%, and that figure continues to grow. And I'm confident: we'll definitely make that billion, even though no one believed it at first!

— In your opinion, are government insurance tenders built on kickbacks, like tenders in many other industries? If so, what percentage or amount of kickback is required to win a major tender, such as, for example, Ukrzaliznytsia? Has this figure decreased since the new government came to power?

— We don't participate in government tenders. This has been the case since our shareholder worked in government structures, and we were prohibited from working with the public sector. For the shareholder, their name is important, and they are guided by the principle: we don't need government assistance or public money, the main thing is that they don't interfere with our work. Yes, we have several clients from the public sector, whom we have been working with for many years. And if there is an opportunity to work with state-owned enterprises, we do not refuse, but we do not place our bet on this area. We're focused on retail, we know how to work with it, and we're excellent at it.

— Have there been any offers to purchase TAS Insurance Group in the last couple of years?

— The last offer was from Unika, back in 2012. Although, whether this was a real offer or whether they simply saw TAS Insurance Group as a promising company and wanted to test the waters and get free consulting remains unknown. However, at that time, a fairly thorough due diligence was conducted, absolutely all of our business processes were disclosed, ideas were voiced, and prospects were demonstrated. And, based on information in Unika's press releases, for the next 2-3 years after the due diligence, the company essentially implemented the ideas we shared with them back then. However, we don't regret it; we're glad we helped our market colleagues))). After all, it's always better to develop and grow in a competitive environment!

— Can you briefly describe how TAS Insurance Company is better than other insurance companies and why it's worth insuring with your company?

— Our main advantage is that we focus primarily on the client's real needs. Unlike many others, we don't try to push a policy at any cost; we base our approach on what our clients actually need. We don't offer "bare" products, like "motor third-party liability insurance," "green insurance," or "travel insurance." All our products are packaged and designed to meet all client needs related to a particular product. 80-90% of our policyholders purchase motor third-party liability insurance with additional services. After all, by purchasing a standard policy, the client is essentially insuring someone else's car and paying for its repair after an accident, while their car and their health remain unprotected. Moreover, even motor third-party liability insurance may not fully cover the cost of repairing someone else's car, as the insurance indemnity amount is legally limited to UAH 100,000. Therefore, the client who purchased bare motor third-party liability insurance will have to pay for anything in excess of this amount. But everyone is primarily concerned with their own life and health, then their personal property, and only then with their liability to others and the property of others. Based on this, we offer our clients a product that satisfies their need for comprehensive protection. And it's in demand. Incidentally, all of our products are built on the same principle—ensuring comprehensive protection.

Our second difference from others is in the settlement procedure and timeframe. For example, under motor third-party liability insurance, we pay within 2-3 days. The client calls the call center, submits a request, comes to us, we take a photo of the car – and, lo and behold, you can collect your payment!

To summarize, we can say that TAS cares about the client and strives to resolve their problems as best as possible in accordance with their values and needs, as well as prompt payments and excellent service.

— TAS Insurance Company does not participate in "direct settlement." Why? When do you plan to join?

— This is our fundamental position. We believe that the way this project is currently run creates the conditions for misleading the client and contributes to unfair competition.

The project participants themselves say that only 7% of all insurance cases were settled using the direct settlement principle. How can we say that we guarantee direct settlement if, in fact, 90% of cases simply cannot be settled using this principle?

For example, if there are more than two participants in an accident or the other participant is insured by an insurance company that is not participating in the project? In this case, instead of quality service and prompt compensation, the client receives a denial of payment: they are confident that their company will handle the incident and, therefore, will not contact the at-fault company. As a result, the insurer, having failed to receive timely notification of the insured event, denies payment, and the client is left with nothing.

We value our clients and do not want to disorient them, and therefore have decided to withdraw from this project. This is despite the fact that we initially supported the idea of direct settlement, but on the condition that all companies participate without exception; in other words, it will be mandatory for everyone. Once this principle is implemented, we will naturally also participate in direct settlement, as it is a real opportunity to provide high-quality service to our clients. Incidentally, in fact, the principle of direct settlement was introduced in our company three years ago: we have a product under which we make payments to our clients ourselves and only then deal with the at-fault party. The client can purchase this option and not worry at all about whether a direct settlement is possible, how many participants in the accident are involved, etc. We take care of all the issues.

— Who are you friends with from the insurance companies? Which of your colleagues would you call a "handsome guy"?

— I'm a "lone wolf" by nature. My social circle is generally limited to work colleagues and family. I don't communicate with colleagues from other insurance companies very often, but it's always interesting. After all, we speak the same language, understand each other perfectly, and always try to support each other.

To be specific, I can say that I sincerely like Pavel Nelga and Andrey Peretyazhko. I don't want to offend anyone, I specifically cited only two people as examples so that it is clear why I like them.

I respect Pavel Nelga, first of all, for his human qualities, and I also like the approaches to work that he is implementing at the Ukrainian Insurance Group.

I respect Andrey Peretyazhko for his attitude towards people, integrity, and intelligence.

In general, to summarize, I like people with an inner core, well-mannered, honest, and not afraid to express their opinion.

— How many people work in the company? Are you planning to expand or reduce the staff in the next year?

— We have always avoided layoffs. Even when the crisis hit, we simply stopped expanding our team, at least in areas where automation was possible.

Today, we also don't seek to inflate our staff, considering it inappropriate: we prefer qualitative indicators over quantitative ones, providing existing employees with opportunities for personal and career growth.

— How are you developing your branch network? What are your core principles or model?

— I repeat, unlike many other companies that emphasize motivation and incentives (by the way, in Latin, "stimulus" is a sharp-pointed stick used to drive elephants), we at SG "TAS" are guided by a simple truth: whether to do something or not to do it is a decision made solely by each employee, based on their own aspirations and skills.

I am of the opinion that desire as such is inherent in everyone; for some, it is simply "hidden" or "extinguished" by fear of the unknown, due to a lack of necessary knowledge and skills, or simply a fear of trying something new. Therefore, we, first and foremost, work with skills. We do not set "wild" plans for our salespeople; every figure we set is justified, and we clearly understand how it can be achieved. Moreover, we provide maximum support to our salespeople, not through empty talk and empty promises, but through concrete actions designed to facilitate and optimize their work.

If, for example, we ask our salespeople to increase renewal rates, we, for our part, launch a CRM that automatically monitors renewal rates. This creates the conditions for our salespeople to achieve their goals.

Or another example. We set ourselves the goal of increasing CASCO sales. We developed an approach, carefully considered who our potential customers might be, put ourselves in the customer's shoes, and came up with a new product that meets both the needs of car owners and the capabilities of our salespeople. We conducted training, practiced the technology through role-playing games, and developed a sales algorithm with the salespeople—and we don't abandon them until they succeed.

Another important point is monitoring their activity. To achieve something, it's not enough to simply want and be able to do something; you have to actually do it. Unfortunately, many people struggle with this. I've heard it more than once: "For me to do anything, someone needs to be standing over me with a bat." Unfortunately, these are the consequences of the Soviet era. We're trying to wean people off the "Soviet" approach to work, adhering to the belief that there's no point in monitoring the results; it's important to monitor the process. This will allow us to understand where bottlenecks are occurring, what needs to be adjusted or changed, and then work together to figure out how to improve the process and what changes to make to ensure the results are as expected.

In general, in my understanding, a good manager is, first and foremost, a coach, a mentor who unobtrusively guides, identifies their employees' developmental milestones, and, based on this, helps them realize their potential.

— How much do your top agents earn on average?

— The salaries of our leading salespeople are above the market average. Moreover, some of our salespeople earn more than board members, and I consider this normal.

Working with us is profitable. This is evidenced by the fact that, having joined us 10-15 years ago, our salespeople not only remain loyal to the company but also refer their relatives, acquaintances, and friends to us. We are recommended! And this is the main factor in assessing the financial capabilities of TAS Insurance Group.

It's no secret that many insurance companies practice this approach: if an employee is full-time, then they are not entitled to a "commission," supposedly because this is an advantage of agency sales. I believe this is fundamentally wrong and even dangerous, as it forces the employee to deceive. We do not play such games. At TAS Insurance Group, full-time employees have every opportunity to earn money without resorting to deception. We believe that sales should be paid, and paid well. And it does not matter who made the sale – a full-time employee or an agent. By the way, in addition to the "commission", our employees also receive an additional 10% of the so-called "motivation".

— Representatives of other insurance companies say that UkrStrahovanie.com.ua is a project of TAS Insurance Group. Most likely, this opinion is formed due to the location of the TAS banner in the most prominent place on our resource. What can you say about this?

— I can say that our marketers are great, because they choose only good projects for cooperation, which allows us to achieve high results and grow not only in retail but also in online sales. We are currently actively developing direct sales. And the results are encouraging: with the efforts of just 30 call center operators, we manage to collect over 1 million UAH in payments monthly!

— When, in your opinion, will the electronic policy be launched in Ukraine and what impact will this event have on the insurance market? How much will the share of online insurance increase after the introduction of the electronic policy?

— I really don't like the way they're trying to launch it. I'm convinced that, as with direct settlement, electronic insurance policies need to be introduced properly: appropriate decisions must be made at the legislative level, and their implementation must be mandatory for everyone. In our country, however, they're currently trying to introduce electronic insurance policies through subordinate legislation. And this is fraught with a number of negative consequences.

Judge for yourself: the National Commission for Financial Services has ordered paper insurance policies to remain in circulation indefinitely. This means that most companies, especially those working through agents with inflated "commissions," won't lift a finger to switch to electronic insurance policies. On the other hand, the regulator, in prescribing the regulatory framework governing the circulation of electronic policies, was bound hand and foot by current legislation, and therefore many important aspects are not specified anywhere, and they operate as if "by default." As a result, a situation arises where everyone seems to understand how to live with these "regulations," but no one is sure that something won't change later, and therefore they are simply afraid to take risks. And the risks are actually numerous.

TAS Insurance Group is one of the few companies that has attempted to improve this process. I once led the group developing the electronic insurance policy. We developed an excellent regulatory framework back then – some of it formed the basis for existing regulations, but many aspects were not taken into account. And this creates a conflict.

For example, we wanted to eliminate the possibility of fraud with the electronic policy. Unfortunately, it is currently quite common, since a completed policy form is a priori considered valid, regardless of whether an insurance payment has been made. As a result, we have seen an increase in counterfeit policies. This problem remains unresolved to this day.

What will the introduction of the electronic policy lead to? Theoretically, it should facilitate the shift of dumping from offline to online. But I think that initially there will be severe dumping in online sales, at least unless the regulator takes control of this issue.

Furthermore, initially, we will witness a surge in fraud – with fictitious websites selling electronic policies. However, it's important to understand that the internet is unlikely to seriously compete with traditional sales in the near future: people still prefer to have a piece of paper in hand; it's more reassuring. And it's unlikely that the situation will be reversed anytime soon.

Of course, the introduction of electronic policies will allow insurers to gain experience and prove the viability of this model in practice, but I still think that this project won't be able to fully meet our expectations in the form in which it is currently being launched.

For electronic policies to work, we must have a strong regulator—one with sufficient powers to ensure oversight of insurers. Because switching to free pricing in the face of dumping and the failure of some insurance companies to fulfill their obligations is a disaster for the market.

It's a different matter altogether—switching to free pricing with a strong regulator who clearly understands whether the insurer is forming reserves correctly and whether it is solvent. Then an electronic policy makes sense. Then it's a competition of technologies. Then this is a stimulus for the market.
After all, more technologically advanced companies, in which core business processes are automated, will be able to offer clients more favorable terms. Ideally, an electronic policy should reduce the cost of sales for insurers; however, given the dumping, today they risk losing more than gaining.

Generally, I believe it is better to wait and do everything properly than to rush, settling for half-measures, and then deal with the consequences of such haste.

Source: Insurance of Ukraine

News companies

STONE